I haven't finished reading through the whole Bible yet, I'm only in Joshua, but I know enough to know that this never made any sense, not completely. It's one of those passages that people like to pull out and throw around without context and while ignoring other passages that contradict it in order to suppress or oppress people.
There are far too many instances of Paul referring men to women to learn from for this passage to hold up on it's own. These passages are not meant to stand alone, they are part of a story, a bigger message that these don't match up with. Anyone taking a look at women in the church should read this book. For that matter, anyone who goes to church should read this.
Note: Before anyone attempts to hit me with some misogynistic Old Testament passage, I'd like to remind them that books are not measured by their beginnings alone.
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It's the progression, the arc. The Bible should not be treated differently. It's a message that progresses throughout it's own history and should not be judged solely by the misogynistic parts of it's beginning but by the arc to redemption and equality that waits at its end.
I haven't read the whole thing, but I've read and been taught enough about that second half to look for that much. If you doubt this or are curious, come along with me on my journey reading through the Bible on this blog. Catch up here. May 11, Joel Jackson rated it it was amazing Shelves: biblical-studies. Well researched! This book really helped me understand the issues in Ephesus at the time that Paul wrote Timothy to give him advice. It is a shame that we have misread I Timothy for so long.
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How many have been harmed? How many have not been able to accomplish the work that God set forth because the church has not given careful enough consideration to this passage? The Kroegers give great wisdom and help us to understand God's will for His people. The Kroegers give fantastic evidence regarding the mystery religions, the beginnings of Gnostic thought, and the interweaving of Greek mythology with the creation myths of Scripture.
In giving these insights, they allow us all to understand that Paul was seeking to counter the teachings of some in the church at Ephesus when giving his directive in I Timothy. He was not suggesting that women have no place of leadership in Christ's redeemed community. Such a thought would certainly be inconsistent with teachings from other letters by Paul and the fact that he partnered with many women while teaching the Gospel. The church consistently needs to consider the books of the Bible and to what context they were written so that we can better live as God's people in the world and so that we can better follow His guidance in making disciples.
All of those created as His church in this world have the opportunity to make disciples, teaching them, both men and women alike. Aug 18, Gayle Fallon rated it did not like it.
I so terribly want to believe the scholarship in this book, but the many bad reviews it spurned across Christian academia have confirmed my gut feeling that the Kroegers are cleverly playing with Greek grammar and Roman history. Granted, the majority of reviews against the book are written by anti-feminists who hold "traditional" views of women's roles in the Church; however, the historical scholarship employed by some of these passionate, mind you reviews does make more sense.
What to believe I so terribly want to believe the scholarship in this book, but the many bad reviews it spurned across Christian academia have confirmed my gut feeling that the Kroegers are cleverly playing with Greek grammar and Roman history. What to believe about 1 Timothy 2? I'm still not sure. I am convinced that, in light of Paul's positive references to female Church leaders elsewhere in the NT, Paul cannot be flat-out condemning female leadership, nor can he be claiming that women are more easily "deceived" than men just because they are women.
That is unbiblical and ridiculous. So, I'm still searching for a well-researched book on this topic that has not been written by a raving misogynist. I guess my next step is to just learn some Greek and do it myself. View 1 comment. Jan 23, Kevin Bensema rated it did not like it. Kroeger presents an interesting argument that I Timothy ish should be seen as an attack on Gnostic heresies rather than any sort of limitation on women in Christianity. When he sticks to the verses at hand, he makes a fair argument, but resorts to assuming the consequent to make his points.
Rebuttals to it have been thorough. Additionally, what could have been an interesting and in-depth study of a few verses was tarnished by an out-of-context and shallow accompanying analysis of various other New Testament verses in an attempt to ultimately argue for clerical egalitarianism and women's ordination.
The author touts Galatians sans context, of course and conveniently ignores Ephesians 5, Paul's words to Timothy on the Bishops, and the entirety of Christian Tradition. View 2 comments. Oct 05, Sherri rated it really liked it Recommends it for: disaffected evangelical smart chicks. Shelves: biblicalcommentary. I found their arguments for women in ministry as supported by Scripture to be persuasive-- although, of course, I came to the table already persuaded. Their detailed research and obviously encyclopedic knowledge of the ancient world lends support to their contention that the Pauline prohibition in this text was NOT meant to prohibit all women fr Richard and Catherine Clark Kroeger founder of Christians for Biblical Equality offer here a solid, well-reasoned interpretation of I Timothy Their detailed research and obviously encyclopedic knowledge of the ancient world lends support to their contention that the Pauline prohibition in this text was NOT meant to prohibit all women from teaching and authoritative positions int he church.
Catherine Clark Kroeger is founder and president emerita of Christians for Biblical Equality and is an adjunct professor of classical and ministry studies at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary.
The Kroegers founded the Institute for Lay Training. Free UK Delivery. Current Stock:. Add to Cart. Related Products.
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Latest Releases. Importantly, verse 15 makes better sense if we understand that verses are speaking about one woman and one man, and possibly a particular couple. Unfortunately, many English translations do not translate the verbs with the correct singular and plural meanings. This demonstrates that some translators have been unable to precisely understand 1 Timothy themselves, so they have broken grammar rules in an attempt to make some sense of the text e.
A few translations, however, accurately convey the respective singular and plural meanings of the verbs in verse 15 e. However, the rules about using or not using a definite article are different and more complex in Greek compared with English. And there are no indefinite articles in Greek. Unlike English, it is common in Greek to use a definite article when making a generic statement about a generic person e. Conversely, there are Greek texts where a specific named or unnamed person is mentioned without the use of a definite article. Here are two examples of ancient letters written in Greek in which the sender is writing about a person known to both sender and receiver, but the unnamed person is mentioned cryptically and without a definite article.
It is from a woman named Theano to her brother. But this is not necessarily the case in Greek. I suggest the woman and man were specific people in Ephesus who are deliberately unidentified by Paul in his letter to Timothy. Firstly, most people, rich and poor, used a secretary to write their letters.
Cicero once complained about letter carriers to his friend Atticus. And Cicero was a person who had more opportunity than the average person of finding and using reliable carriers than people further down the social ladder. Unlike Cicero, the average person in the Roman world could not use the state-run postal system which was primarily used for government and military purposes.
Sometimes, the letter carrier delivered the letter by reading it aloud as well, as handing it to the recipient.
This was necessary if the recipient could not read. But even if the recipient was literate, carriers might still read the letter aloud and pass on comments and side notes from the sender. Letter carriers were usually people chosen for their high level of integrity, but sometimes there were issues that needed to be kept secret from them. If there was something especially private, personal, or sensitive contained in a letter, it was written in a circumspect way so that the secretary, letter carrier, and any other go-between, would be left none the wiser about the identity of any people being written about.
The truly private information was written in a way that only the sender and recipient understood who was being referred to. The Greek phrases used in relation to this Corinthian man are unlike those mentioned in 1 Timothy and the papyrus examples given above. Nevertheless, Paul refers to the man circumspectly in 1 Corinthians b and again in 2 Corinthians There is no doubt the Corinthians knew exactly who Paul was referring to, yet the identities of the man and woman are completely unknown to us today. Perhaps the anonymous woman in the church at Ephesus was engaging in unwholesome behaviour.
Jezebel of Thyatira, a woman recognised as a church leader, was teaching and deceiving people in a particularly unwholesome manner Rev. Note that this woman in the church at Thyatira, like the Ephesian woman, is anonymous. By not revealing the names of the couples in the Corinthian and Ephesian churches, or the true name of Jezebel, these people had a real opportunity to repent, be restored, and have their disgrace minimised.
I strongly suspect that the instructions in 1 Timothy were given to men and women plural in the Ephesian church, but that verses were about a particular couple, probably a married couple, who were engaging in unacceptable behaviour instigated by the woman. Paul may have wanted to protect the privacy of this couple, and he has achieved this.
Timothy no doubt knew their identity. More about the meaning of authentein here.https://hukusyuu.com/profile/2020-01-22/kostenlos-handyortung-online.php
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However, Paul does not regard the Ephesian woman as an enemy and even provides hope in 1 Timothy Mohr, — Many thanks to Lyn Kidson who pointed out these books in her comments below. More on this here. I further suggest that this woman was from an elite family and that Paul addresses the situation with diplomacy and discretion. We know Paul had friends in Ephesus from elite, powerful and wealthy families Acts He would want to avoid shaming his friends.
And we know there were wealthy women in the Ephesian church. Only wealthy women could afford the gold and pearls and the slaves to do their elaborately braided hairstyles.
I Suffer Not a Woman
Paul mentions these women in 1 Timothy and then narrows his concern to one of them in 1 Timothy Peter in Galatians is astonishing. It may be that the scenario addressed in 1 Timothy has nothing to do with the setting of a church service, but marriage. Marg Mowczko lives north of Sydney, Australia, in a house filled with three generations of family.